You are viewing gabri_jade

meanderings
I'm trying to feed my soul with thought
C-IV, meeting Karen Traviss (Sacrifice spoilers) 
6th-Jun-2007 06:04 pm
misc - red hair
It actually posted - and the whole thing in one entry! Color me amazed. *squints at LJ*

Here's the account of the meeting with Karen Traviss:



Mandy, Bri, oba, and I went to the food court to meet Traci for lunch, and when I got there she grabbed my arm and said, "Do you want to meet Karen Traviss? She's right over here behind you." I said, "No, thank you. I couldn't be polite." Trace said, "No, you don't understand. She's not what we thought. You have to come talk to her." So I followed Trace to the next table where Karen was sitting with her back to us.

Trace said, "Karen, here's another Mara fan for you to meet." Karen looked up at me, looked back down at the table, and said, "Yes, I've been noticing all the red hair. I was trying to hide." But she was very gracious and shook my hand and said it was nice to meet me. I asked her if the rumors about Sacrifice were true. She asked me if I was spoiled for the book, and I said yes, totally, and she said, yes, they were true.

I forget the absolute order of the conversation from there, but here's the basic content:

I told Karen that some fans had asked Timothy Zahn a few months ago if he'd heard anything about Mara's fate in Sacrifice, and he'd said no. Did Karen know if he had been informed and just had a good poker face, or had he really not known that Mara was going to be killed? Karen said that as far as she knew, no one had informed Tim, but that he always took these things like a pro, and that it was one of the risks of writing for hire; but that said, she knew that characters were like one's children, and she'd certainly be upset if someone else killed off one of hers, because you always felt that if your character had to die, you should be the one to write the death scene. She said she'd meet with him in a couple of months and buy him a drink and apologize.

She said that before the decision to kill Mara was made, she was flown in to meet with Denning and Allston and some more Lucasfilm/Del Rey people, and she thought, wow, it must be important for them to spring for her flying in from the UK. So they were discussing where the pivot point for the Legacy series would be, and what would, in Karen's words, "punch the Sith card for Jacen, so that he'd be 100% Sith bastard". It was Karen's own idea that Mara should be the one to die, and she said that having made the suggestion, she felt a moral obligation to be the one to follow through on it and write that scene. She's actually a big Mara fan herself, and says that too many people forget Mara's past. She says that Mara's not a supermodel in a catsuit and not just a passive Jedi; Mara's a warrior. She always has been and always will be, and Karen wanted to write her that way. (Trace and I were ever so pleased to hear that last.)

Trace and I said that we couldn't pretend that we were happy about Mara dying, but if she had to, we wanted it to have meaning. We didn't just want her mindlessly sacrificed for some nebulous plot point. Karen said she agreed completely, and that she'd done her best to do exactly that, to give Mara's death great meaning. She said that she actually cried writing Mara's death and Luke and Ben's reactions - and I swear to you, the woman had tears in her eyes as she discussed it. She said that if you didn't have that reaction yourself during the writing, and you couldn't create that reaction in the readers, then you hadn't done your job properly. I said that she was currently surrounded by fanficcers, and that we completely understood that reaction; that I myself had written scenes that had me weeping at the computer; the difference being that when we fanficcers killed a character, we could bring them back to life in the next story but when the profic people killed them, they were gone for good, which just wasn't fair. And she truly didn't bat an eye at that. There was no flicker of contempt or disrespect at all for us amateur writers. It was more of a "you see where I'm coming from, then" reaction on her part, and she was that way through the entire conversation. I greatly appreciated that measure of respect.

She says that she sees Mara as a mother who would do anything at all for her son, and that's really what she does in the novel, goes to hell and back for Ben's sake, and that concern for and willingness to protect Ben was what led to her death. We discussed Luke's reaction to her death, which I had not heard of before that. Trace had, and told Karen that she thought it was brilliant how she handled it, that most of Luke's worst reaction was off camera, so to speak, which Trace said was far better because we could all imagine it better than any written description could say. Karen agreed that the worst really had to be in private, and it was the little things that counted - and I have read the L/M sections of the book by now, and I have to agree with Karen and Trace's assessment; it was beautifully done. Once I finish writing this post, I can type up those sections of the book for you if you want.

She said some more about the Mandalorians (about which I still honestly don't care) and Obi-Wan and the Jedi and Vader and Jacen. She's a big Vader fan, can't stand Obi-Wan, and thinks that the Jedi had lost touch with reality to such an extent that they really deserved to be wiped out. (I completely disagree with her there, btw; just reporting.) She says that she understands Jacen's way of thinking and his fall to Sithdom and all that, but that Jacen was a pale imitation of his grandfather. Apparently Boba Fett says that at some point in the books, but I missed it.

I had to break out of the discussion somewhere around there, because my sister and Bri and oba were waiting for me so we could go on to the last attractions (there was only about two hours left in the last day at that point), so I excused myself for interrupting, but said that I really appreciated Karen's time, and that while it killed me that Mara had to die, she was my heart in the EU and it made it easier for me to handle those developments knowing that Karen had really cared about Mara and how her death was handled, and that she put so much emotion and effort into it. Karen hugged me and said she really had, and to please write her when I finished the book and tell her what I thought of it, and if I felt she'd gotten Mara's characterization right. Which BLEW ME AWAY.

So overall, I was deeply impressed. I still disagree with some of Karen's writing style, I still don't care about the Mandalorians and don't see what purpose their inclusion in Legacy serves, I still disagree that Mara had to die (and having read the scene now, do not feel that Jacen's last trick against her would actually have worked), and do not feel that Karen really nailed Mara's characterization in her previous book, Bloodlines. But Karen was so very gracious and accessible and respectful, and so willing to chat at great length with all of us when she was A) away from her "professional" stature at the moment and just eating lunch, and B) surrounded by avid fans of the character she'd just killed off. She never gave any indication that our writing of fanfic was disagreeable to her, or that our thoughts on writing were worth less than hers. She was polite and friendly and actually asked for our opinion on her work, and she really did care about Mara and her portrayal. And every last bit of that is so much more than I expected from her that my opinion of her has really done a 180. It was definitely one of the highlights for me.



I'll almost certainly still rant about Sacrifice once I finish my more thorough reading, though. It's making me crazy. :p
Comments 
7th-Jun-2007 01:39 am (UTC)
I'm glad to see a long documentation of the Marafen/Traviss meeting... Mind if I link this on CJ?
7th-Jun-2007 01:43 am (UTC)
Not at all. If you think it'd be of interest, go right ahead. :)
7th-Jun-2007 02:06 am (UTC)
Okay, since she was so nice, I don't feel quite so bad about the book now. And having heard this, I can totally see how she was working at things this way. Super interesting. :)
7th-Jun-2007 07:28 pm (UTC)
The ironic thing is that I loved meeting her and think that she's a super nice person, but I still hate the book. :p I do understand how she approached it now, though, which helps.

Also, I love your icon. <3
7th-Jun-2007 03:09 am (UTC)
Yay! LJ finally let you post it!

Anyway, glad to hear that Karen Traviss at least cares about Mara. It really would have been dreadful if someone who didn't love the character killed her off, even if it's already pretty awful that Mara had to die.
7th-Jun-2007 07:32 pm (UTC)
That's what it really comes down to. Mara's death stinks. On a practical level, I'm sorry, Karen, but it just doesn't work. Mara could and would have taken Jacen down at least three different times during that fight, Mara would not have fallen for Jacen's last trick, and she wasn't hurt so badly that she couldn't have fought the poison, especially considering that she's probably more experienced at doing so than any Jedi alive. From a storytelling level, Karen just sacrificed one of the truly beloved and strong characters for the sake of propping up the flimsy Jacen-as-Sith-Lord concept they stupidly decided to go with for Legacy. On practically every level, it just doesn't work.

But the small comfort of Karen caring about Mara is all I have to cling to, so I do. :p
7th-Jun-2007 07:41 pm (UTC)
At least Mara lives forever in fanfic :)
7th-Jun-2007 07:54 pm (UTC)
And considering the reaction I've seen from the fanfic Mara fans, she always will. I'm so glad I wandered into this online world of fanfic, because it's been a great consolation when the profic is idiotic, which has been most of the time. :p
7th-Jun-2007 11:26 am (UTC)
Hmm, interesting. I've just finished Sacrifice about 20 minutes ago, and yes. Interesting. Brave of her to admit it was her idea to have Mara die...

It's funny, but I actually am not a huge fan of the Mara characterisation in Sacrifice. I admire the thought behind it, emphasising the fighter and mother sides of Mara (rather than the incomprehensible 'defend Jacen' deluded side that we've been seeing more of to this point), but I felt that it could have been handled a little more subtly, instead of reiterating every two seconds that Mara used to be an assassin. Kind of anvilicious in the light of things.

But that may change on rereading. Things often do. ;)

I also found the Mandalorian sections more interesting than having to sit through pages and pages of Jacen's self-indulgence, and I'm no Mandalorian fan, so that's saying something. *sigh* When it comes to their overall relevance in the plot, though, I know what you mean.

Yay for book!rants. ;)
7th-Jun-2007 03:55 pm (UTC)
Traviss seems big on anvils in this one. Methinks she spent too much time processing the nonnegotiable idiocy and debate-everything nature of fandom... But then, not having read her RC books, I'm not sure if she started out that way or not.
7th-Jun-2007 07:45 pm (UTC)
The only books of hers that I've read are the LotF ones, so I don't know how accurately I can judge her writing as a whole. But yes, way too many anvils here. I'm really displeased with the entire LotF series, and I only feel that way more and more as it progresses - and that's without even taking my extreme aversion to Mara's death into account.

8th-Jun-2007 01:57 pm (UTC)
And I thought no one would know what I meant by anvilicious. :P

It's as though there's a worry that if things aren't repeated *all the time* readers are going to forget, or not understand, or something. And it wasn't even necessary most of the time. It was clear from Ben's thoughts that he'd matured without having every second character comment on how he looked older, how he wasn't a boy any longer, etc. Mara's competence as a warrior and a fighter could easily have been shown without pounding in her past from every angle at every opportunity.

If nothing else, it might have made the book a little easier to get through.
7th-Jun-2007 07:39 pm (UTC)
I still haven't finished it. I read all the L/M parts in something of a hurry the first day it was released, then went back to read the whole thing more carefully. That part's going slow, because I just don't care. And yes, definitely brave of her when she knew she was surrounded by Mara fans.

I agree with you about Mara's characterization in Sacrifice. The thought behind it is great - and I do think that Mara is better characterized here than she has been since midway through the NJO (well, Allston's had good moments with her in LotF, but overall she's been a fool in this series). But you're exactly right that it was too heavy-handed, and it kind of irritated me. And no amount of good characterization can make up for the idiotic Mara who's been defending Jacen all this time. They butchered her character there, and I'm not sure anything the profic could ever do would balance that out.

I also found the Mandalorian sections more interesting than having to sit through pages and pages of Jacen's self-indulgence, and I'm no Mandalorian fan, so that's saying something. *sigh*

I KNOW!!! You just summed up my own reaction exactly. The Mandalorian stuff is way more interesting than the Jacen stuff, which is horrendously bad for two reasons: 1) Jacen's supposed to be the star of these books, not Boba Fett, and 2) I STILL can't figure out what the Mandalorians are doing there in the first place.

Once I finish this book, there'll be a rant. I guarantee that much.
8th-Jun-2007 01:44 pm (UTC)
I was so sorely tempted to skip to the L/M parts as soon as I got the book, but forced myself not to because I knew there was no way I would get through the rest if I did that. And boy, was it painful not to skip at times. :p

Mara's characterisation bothered me most in the first half or so of the book, I think; it was almost like she was a caricature of Mara rather than Mara the person, if that makes sense. The core characteristics were there, but they were a little *too* developed. Better than being undeveloped as they have been in other books, but not quite right. Once I got to the parts with Ben, things seemed to settle down. I really liked the way Traviss wrote Mara as a mother, actually.

Looking forward to hearing your rant, uh, thoughts on the book. ;)
10th-Jun-2007 08:27 am (UTC)
It's definitely painful not to skip.

Yes, it does make sense. I completely see what you're saying, and I agree. My only complaint about Mara as a mother is that she puts Ben so much to the forefront in her priorities that even Luke gets pushed to the side. That's just not right, not for the marriage, and not for the child.

Before I rant, I have to read, and it's slow going. *sighs*
7th-Jun-2007 06:48 pm (UTC)
Sometimes I wish I had stayed for more of the Karen chat than I did, if only for the sole fact that that really is like a once in a lifetime opportunity. But I did stay for a good part of it, and I was hungry and talking about Legacy usually takes away my appetite for anything- reading, SW, or food. :p

I believe I left right after right after the part about how she was crying and how you had to feel it for the reader to feel it. Which would have been the pinnacle for me anyway, I think. That was when she truly placed herself as legitimately caring and regardless of how Mara's death was played out, you knew that Karen cared. Her sincerity and politeness truly blew me away. My gripes of how it was played out are in no way a reflection on her. I would be bitching about it even if Zahn had went the poison dart route.

Le sigh. The talk was wonderful, but I still hate the book's ending.

ps- Karen has a lj. Just so you know. :p
7th-Jun-2007 07:52 pm (UTC)
You stayed for a lot of it, especially considering your aversion for LotF. :*

That was when she truly placed herself as legitimately caring and regardless of how Mara's death was played out, you knew that Karen cared. Her sincerity and politeness truly blew me away. My gripes of how it was played out are in no way a reflection on her. I would be bitching about it even if Zahn had went the poison dart route.

Exactly. Even my complaints about the book's plot and writing aren't a reflection on her; while I may dislike aspects of her writing and despise the LotF plot arc overall, I liked her a lot. And even had Zahn done it himself, most of us would still be royally pissed off about Mara dying.

ps- Karen has a lj. Just so you know. :p

Oh, crap. And I, after four days of introducing myself to people as Gabri Jade, did so to Karen. I do hope she's forgotten that, because I hate this book and this series, but I really really liked her. *sigh*
7th-Jun-2007 07:56 pm (UTC)
Hmm... I'm another one of those people who didn't buy Karen's characterization of Mara here.

I'll give her points for making an effort at backstory references this time, but the effort still felt like surface detail, disguising a core characterization that was unchanged from Bloodlines.

And then I'll admit that it might be hard for Karen to shift her established POV on the character further in line with the previous canon (or at least the Ewok's POV)...

But....

Where I think Karen gets it wrong is that she overdefines "Mara the warrior" against some "supermodel in a catsuit" concept (and a little semantic deconstruction of that contrast suggests a snark at fanboys).....

By thus focusing on her own construct, she totally misses what is, for me, the key tension in Mara's character - the one between her capability to kill and her sense of doing the right thing. It's that tension which makes Mara interesting, IMHO, because it's what makes her smart, sneaky and subtle, rather than just Boba Fett with breasts.

I could gush on the way I think this affects/defines most aspects of her characterization, but it would be a most un-fanboyish squee--let me know if you want me to explain more, though?

Back to topic: Karen got Mara's warrior-mom urges right. But the Mara who Tim Zahn created, the Mara who's more than just a warrior--and whose abilities as an agent are enhanced by it... isn't there in Sacrifice; and from my POV, that read as a loss for Mara, a narrowing of who she "was" in previous stories... and when the plot is seen from that POV, that's a pretty awful way to kill the character.

When reading Sacrifice, I thought this was a deliberately written to be an ugly, nasty, pointless death. And I can respect the decision to expend the character that way. It seems appropriate

But killing her just to get a cheap emotional kick from the readers?

I'll leave the rest of you to decide what you, individually make of that.

'ewok
7th-Jun-2007 08:13 pm (UTC)
Why, hello, 'Wok! :D

I'll give her points for making an effort at backstory references this time, but the effort still felt like surface detail, disguising a core characterization that was unchanged from Bloodlines.

I like the way you worded that, and completely agree with you. The problem is that after so much bad characterization of Mara, including an awful lot of the NJO, I'm desperate enough to cling to surface detail because no one but Zahn has ever gotten Mara truly right. (The only one who ever came really close was Kathy Tyers with Balance Point, and I suspect the reason behind that was that she sent the manuscript to Zahn with the Mara parts highlighted, and asked for his input.) So having given up on ever reading a fully realized Mara not written by Zahn, I take what I can get.

Where I think Karen gets it wrong is that she overdefines "Mara the warrior" against some "supermodel in a catsuit" concept (and a little semantic deconstruction of that contrast suggests a snark at fanboys).....

Agreed, on both counts. Though that damned catsuit has indeed followed Mara more than it ever should have.

By thus focusing on her own construct, she totally misses what is, for me, the key tension in Mara's character - the one between her capability to kill and her sense of doing the right thing. It's that tension which makes Mara interesting, IMHO, because it's what makes her smart, sneaky and subtle, rather than just Boba Fett with breasts.

LOL! That's a fantastically worded insight and I totally agree. :D

I could gush on the way I think this affects/defines most aspects of her characterization, but it would be a most un-fanboyish squee--let me know if you want me to explain more, though?

*amused* You have never been a typical fanboy, my dear. And while we may disagree at times, I've always found our discussions highly interesting. Explain as much as you want; I don't mind a bit. ;)

Back to topic: Karen got Mara's warrior-mom urges right. But the Mara who Tim Zahn created, the Mara who's more than just a warrior--and whose abilities as an agent are enhanced by it... isn't there in Sacrifice; and from my POV, that read as a loss for Mara, a narrowing of who she "was" in previous stories... and when the plot is seen from that POV, that's a pretty awful way to kill the character.

I'm thrilled to read that. It's what I was thinking and couldn't quite put into words. Thank you for saying it and helping me clarify my own thoughts. :D

When reading Sacrifice, I thought this was a deliberately written to be an ugly, nasty, pointless death. And I can respect the decision to expend the character that way. It seems appropriate

I can respect the decision to expend A character that way. I see where Karen was going with the plot and that decision. I disagree that Mara should have been the one to be expended in such a way. The cost - to the plausibility of the story; to the characterization of everyone else outside of Jacen himself, that they are portrayed as being that outrageously blind; to the already dwindling trust that the readers had in Del Rey; to future books that now cannot feature either Mara or the fascinating effect and relationships she had on others - is far out of proportion to the gain.

But killing her just to get a cheap emotional kick from the readers?

I'll leave the rest of you to decide what you, individually make of that.


Individually, I think it was a profoundly bad decision.
8th-Jun-2007 10:12 am (UTC)
Why, hello, 'Wok! :D

Hey, Gabri! :D

I like the way you worded that, and completely agree with you. The problem is that after so much bad characterization of Mara, including an awful lot of the NJO, I'm desperate enough to cling to surface detail because no one but Zahn has ever gotten Mara truly right. (The only one who ever came really close was Kathy Tyers with Balance Point, and I suspect the reason behind that was that she sent the manuscript to Zahn with the Mara parts highlighted, and asked for his input.) So having given up on ever reading a fully realized Mara not written by Zahn, I take what I can get.

*shrugs* I liked Tyers' Mara, and I also felt that Keyes did her very well - hormonal, certainly, but recognizably the right character. He put tension into the L/M relationship, but I guess I maybe like that more than some people?

And Stackpole, in both DN3 and I, Jedi, did a pretty good job. I don't think there's anything wrong with the way Denning or Allston write her, either. Denning's callsign for her, "Mother", with its overtones of being short for something stronger than "... kriffer", I think captured some of her ambiguities nicely; but then again, some people might see that as slightly tasteless...

Luceno hasn't written much of her, but what he has (discussion with Luke at the start of Hero's Trial, and especially fight with Nom Anor in The Unifying Force) was pretty good....

On the other hand, I do agree that in some of the later NJO, she didn't quite read right. WJW and Williams/Dix didn't quite get her, and she was one of the less notable characters back in Vector Prime.

Cunningham...? Well, I can't quite shake the sense that she was the one who killed Teneniel, picking up on the rumours about Callista's disappearance that were current on the Fringe back in the Luceno books.

Agreed, on both counts. Though that damned catsuit has indeed followed Mara more than it ever should have.

It's a very practical piece of clothing, and Mara has the poise to wear it - what was it Karrde said about her: "pretty and practical? My favourite combination."

I was even more impressed that Zahn rationalized the cloak in Allegiance.

LOL! That's a fantastically worded insight and I totally agree. :D

Sometimes, shooting from the hip hits the mark?

*amused* You have never been a typical fanboy, my dear. And while we may disagree at times, I've always found our discussions highly interesting. Explain as much as you want; I don't mind a bit. ;)

Nahh. I was trying to sneak out of developing the argument too much. If you want to hear my views, though, sure!

I'm thrilled to read that. It's what I was thinking and couldn't quite put into words. Thank you for saying it and helping me clarify my own thoughts. :D

It's what I'm here for?

I can respect the decision to expend A character that way. I see where Karen was going with the plot and that decision. I disagree that Mara should have been the one to be expended in such a way. The cost - to the plausibility of the story; to the characterization of everyone else outside of Jacen himself, that they are portrayed as being that outrageously blind; to the already dwindling trust that the readers had in Del Rey; to future books that now cannot feature either Mara or the fascinating effect and relationships she had on others - is far out of proportion to the gain.

*nods*

What's left now? Luke and Ben, Jaina, Han and Leia...?

I can see the rationale, inasmuch as it was damn hard to kill off another top-line character. But ask yourself this: which character-death was more impressive, more meaningful - Nelani Dinn, or Mara Jade?

To make matters worse, I'm starting to enjoy Jacen again at the end of this book, and I don't think that was part of the plan...

I have confidence in Troy and Aaron, though. But we'll see....

Individually, I think it was a profoundly bad decision.

*hugs* You too, huh?
10th-Jun-2007 09:15 am (UTC)
I went over the word limit - surprise, surprise with one of our discussions :p - so this'll be in two parts. :p

*shrugs* I liked Tyers' Mara, and I also felt that Keyes did her very well - hormonal, certainly, but recognizably the right character. He put tension into the L/M relationship, but I guess I maybe like that more than some people?

Yes, you do. :p But I think that Luke and Mara without tension simply are not Luke and Mara, and I do agree that Keyes handled her well for the most part.

And Stackpole, in both DN3 and I, Jedi, did a pretty good job. I don't think there's anything wrong with the way Denning or Allston write her, either. Denning's callsign for her, "Mother", with its overtones of being short for something stronger than "... kriffer", I think captured some of her ambiguities nicely; but then again, some people might see that as slightly tasteless...

I didn't read I, Jedi, but Stackpole writes Mara reasonably well. However, I never feel that he captures the core of Mara. He gets the edges, and he paints a decent picture with those edges, but the heart isn't fully there. I don't know how to put it any better than that.

I never thought of Denning's callsign like that. :p Considering that it was just after Ben was born, I figured it was meant pretty straightforwardly. And in the straightforward light, I despised that callsign. I don't mean to undermine motherhood, but a woman who has children is still more than a mother. I hate it when women totally lose themselves in the role of mother, and I think Mara's been written way too close to that way most of the time since Ben's birth. It bothers me.

Luceno hasn't written much of her, but what he has (discussion with Luke at the start of Hero's Trial, and especially fight with Nom Anor in The Unifying Force) was pretty good....

I really liked the discussion in Hero's Trial. That made me wish Luceno would write more of her so I could see how he handled a more fully realized Mara. I feel that way about Allston, too, a lot of the time. I really like how Allston gives Mara a sense of humor; almost no one else ever attempts that. But Luceno simply hasn't written enough of her for me to really comment on his abilities, and Allston, like Stackpole, is missing something crucial in his Mara.

On the other hand, I do agree that in some of the later NJO, she didn't quite read right. WJW and Williams/Dix didn't quite get her, and she was one of the less notable characters back in Vector Prime.

I can't even remember how WJW handled her characterization, which tells you how forgettable I considered it. Williams and Dix wrote her as a domineering bitch. The only thing they picked up about her character was that she had a temper. I read those books and wondered why Luke had ever married this woman. Of course, their writing stank as a whole, so it's no surprise that they couldn't properly portray a character with as many subtleties as Mara. Vector Prime was just a joke, plain and simple. Salvatore didn't understand a thing about Mara. He wrote her as a generic little Jedi wife for Luke, tossed in a handful of passing mentions about her temper and independence, and called it a day.

Cunningham...? Well, I can't quite shake the sense that she was the one who killed Teneniel, picking up on the rumours about Callista's disappearance that were current on the Fringe back in the Luceno books.

I admit that you've lost me a bit here. I don't recall a thing about rumors regarding Callista. I do remember wondering when she was going to make her NJO appearance, considering that everyone else under the sun was doing so. :p LotF continues that trend tenfold, so I won't be surprised if she shows up before we're done. :|

10th-Jun-2007 09:17 am (UTC)
Or three parts . . . :p

It's a very practical piece of clothing, and Mara has the poise to wear it - what was it Karrde said about her: "pretty and practical? My favourite combination."

"Decorative and competent both; his favorite combination." And you're right on both counts. Personally, I liked the catsuit when that picture first appeared. I don't think that it's the catsuit itself that raises the hackles of some fans; it's that it's become omnipresent. Even in fanfic, Mara's far too often written as wearing some variation of That Damned Suit. It's like the way Luke is so often portrayed, both in profic and fanfic, as wearing black. Just because he wore it in RotJ, our last cinematic look at him, people assume that that's what he primarily wore the rest of his life. If I read one more fanfic reference to "his Jedi blacks", or Mara complaining that he never wears anything but black, I swear I'll throw something. Use some imagination, people! Just because a character is shown in an outfit once doesn't mean that they never wear anything else!

So, yeah. It's not so much the suit as the ripple effect it's caused.

I was even more impressed that Zahn rationalized the cloak in Allegiance.

Hee hee! Zahn is good. :D

Sometimes, shooting from the hip hits the mark?

Every now and then. ;)

Nahh. I was trying to sneak out of developing the argument too much. If you want to hear my views, though, sure!

I leave it up to you. Aside from the one issue on which we have agreed to disagree, I never mind hearing your views, but if you'd like to sneak off, I'll look the other way. ;)

What's left now? Luke and Ben, Jaina, Han and Leia...?

What's left is a shattered family, even worse off than when Anakin died. Once they find out that Jacen is responsible for Mara's death, they're going to splinter. And I resent Del Rey and its authors for that.

10th-Jun-2007 09:18 am (UTC)
I can see the rationale, inasmuch as it was damn hard to kill off another top-line character. But ask yourself this: which character-death was more impressive, more meaningful - Nelani Dinn, or Mara Jade?

Nelani Dinn. I don't even have to think twice about that. That was a turning point, far more than Mara's death was. Jacen killed her, a comrade in arms, a fellow Jedi, in cold blood, then mind-rubbed Ben to hide the truth. His conduct there was a shock, something fairly unexpected to the reader. It was meant to be, and mostly was, the moment where we first said, "Wait - Han and Leia's only remaining son, the pacifist, the philosopher - he really is going down the Sith road." At the end of Betrayal, I actually thought this series might be worthwhile after all.

Compare that to his killing of Mara, which came after several books' worth of buildup regarding Jacen's hallowed, almighty, destined-to-be Sith sacrifice. Everyone already knew he was going to kill someone. We'd already been treated to his internal whining about it ad nauseum. Rumors were swirling long before the book's release that it was going to be Mara - and why? Because Jacen is widely regarded as incapable of killing Luke. Because Ben almost certainly must live to become Cade's ancestor. Because Jacen no longer cares enough about his parents for them to make a valid sacrifice. Because no one can quite imagine him killing his twin. And then the cover of Sacrifice appears, with that title, and with Mara as the sole cover character. And once the book was out, we see a rather tortured-looking Luke on the back. Gee, I wonder who Jacen could possibly kill that would pass as impressive and meaningful? At the end of Sacrifice, I'm left with little more than disgust and apathy for the entire storyline.

It's a cop-out. The more I read, the more I think about it, the more certain I am of that. No matter how they play this storyline out, this was a profoundly bad move. The only way they can imbue it with any meaning now is for this to have been a false sacrifice, a way Jacen lulls himself into complacency, into thinking that he doesn't have to sacrifice Allana (I ignore Tenel Ka entirely, because their relationship has been a total joke - not an iota of time has been spent on convincing the readers that Jacen loves her enough to do what he has on her behalf), only to have to make exactly that sacrifice later on and be shattered himself by it, the way he's shattered Luke now. And even that doesn't begin to even the scales with Mara's death.

To make matters worse, I'm starting to enjoy Jacen again at the end of this book, and I don't think that was part of the plan...

Nope. You're supposed to hate him now. Though I honestly don't understand how anyone could either hate him or enjoy him at this point. I'm utterly indifferent to him; he's boring me to tears every time he arrives on scene. Yes, Jacen, I know you're a big bad Sith. Can we just get the hell on with it already?

I have confidence in Troy and Aaron, though. But we'll see....

I have some measure of confidence in Allston. If nothing else at all, I'll see some more of the Antilles family with him, and I enjoy that. I don't think he can salvage this series or storyline. I have less than no confidence in Denning. If I never read another word by Denning, I'd be quite happy. Dark Nest was an abomination in every way, and he hasn't done any better with LotF. I wish he'd disappear from the scene and leave me with my fond memories of Tatooine Ghost and even Star by Star, because his latest works only retroactively and by association tarnish my opinion of his earlier books that I actually enjoyed.

*hugs* You too, huh?

*hugs* Oh, yeah. From a 'shipper's POV, they just took away the main reason a lot of us are still reading the books. From a writer's and a reader's POV, there's nothing in the storyline to justify that. Del Rey has gone down the dark path, and forever shall it dominate their destiny.
8th-Jun-2007 04:46 am (UTC)
I'd forgotten her comment about our red hair. ;) Now that you mention it, I do remember her eyes growing wide when we surrounded her. *grin*

Meeting Karen is the reason I've stayed sane, lol. I want to hate the book, but I can't. Many of the criticisms against it are justified, no questions there, but I can only think that it could have been so much worse. (i.e. written by a fleet junkie who had Mara blown out of the sky by an SSD with no final battle or dying words.)

If it had to happen, and if it couldn't be Zahn, I'm glad it was Karen. She's lovely and the line from Shakespeare in Love comes to mind: "It takes a woman to know it."

:)



10th-Jun-2007 09:23 am (UTC)
I liked the red hair part. :D

Oh, I can hate it. I can hate it with a passion. And liking Karen only makes it more difficult, because I do like her, quite a lot, and I really appreciate that killing Mara was something she was emotionally involved with and cared about. But I hate the book.

But you're right that it could have been a lot worse, and I'm glad that meeting Karen has been a comfort to you. :)
9th-Jun-2007 08:47 pm (UTC)
Thank you so much for posting this! I followed the link from Club Jade and I have to say, reading how much Karen cared about the character as a character, and not just in relation to the plot was really nice. I found myself in tears when I read the death scene and I don't feel so foolish now that I know Karen experienced the same writing it!

I've never met or spoken to Karen aside from interactions on the Official Forums and from what I can tell, she's very gracious, very easy to relate to her fans and extremely respectful. In fact, I told her I was shocked when I found out she named one of her characters Mirta because that's my middle name! She's nice to chat with, and you're so lucky to have met her!
10th-Jun-2007 09:26 am (UTC)
I know what you mean. It is a comfort to know that the author who wrote her death cared about her, and about portraying her properly. :)

She really was absolutely wonderful to talk to, very kind and personable. It was a joy to meet her. :D And how cool that Mirta shares your name! :D
12th-Jun-2007 01:19 am (UTC)
She has always been a big fanfic type person.

And yay characterization. Forgetting Mara is a warrior drove me NUTS.

And I'm glad to hear this is going to be a death that MEANS something. Unlike, say, ANAKIN.
12th-Jun-2007 07:40 pm (UTC) - Mara's Death...
I'm glad that I stumbled onto this page. I recently finished reading Sacrifice myself and was crushed by the death of Mara. I'm a huge fan and couldn't get past, well the fact that she had to die in the first place, the way she was so out of character throughout the novel (like reading about a really bad clone of Mara), and that her death really served no purpose in this increasingly stupid plot that is LotF. I don't know if it is just me, but ever since Del Rey took back over the Star Wars novels from Spectra things just haven't been as good. The whole NJO series was reaching to me and seriously dumbing up the characters. I just have no reason to keep reading the novels from Del Rey anymore. Thank goodness for fan fiction.

After reading about the fan meeting with Karen Traviss, I can't hate her anymore, but I still think she made a huge mistake in killing off the most interesting character in the series (and I was a Star Wars fan long before Timothy Zahn ever wrote Heir to the Empire - but it changed my life). I recently emailed Del Rey, not that I think it will make a difference but I still wanted them to understand there are people who disagree with killing off Mara Jade Skywalker, and let them know how I feel, what Mara meant to fans and why she will be missed. I also let them know I won't be buying anymore of the LotF novels either. If anyone wants to you can email them at delrey@randomhouse.com like I did. Sometimes it just helps to vent.

I'm glad a found this place where Mara lives on forever even if Del Rey never lets Timothy Zahn fix this mess. I can appreciate that Karen was moved to tears while writing the death of Mara, but I still think the entire story was way off base and that Mara's death served no purpose at all except for Del Rey trying to lose sight of the big picture and move out the loved / established characters and make room for those poorly developed ones like Jacen Solo in a plot that is weakly related and seriously not as well handled as what George Lucas did with Anakin Skywalker in Episode III.

If any of you have any good fan fics to recommend, I'm interested. Thanks for letting me vent.
13th-Jun-2007 11:36 pm (UTC) - Re: Mara's Death...
I recently emailed Del Rey, not that I think it will make a difference but I still wanted them to understand there are people who disagree with killing off Mara Jade Skywalker, and let them know how I feel, what Mara meant to fans and why she will be missed. I also let them know I won't be buying anymore of the LotF novels either. If anyone wants to you can email them at delrey@randomhouse.com like I did. Sometimes it just helps to vent.

Great suggestion! I just emailed my letter. Here it is in case anyone is interested:
---------------
To Whom It May Concern:

I have been a Star Wars fan since 1977. Luke was always my favorite character. I liked the others, too… but there was something about being a Jedi that intrigued me. Even though I was a little girl, I wanted to be a Jedi. Only problem was Lucas didn't put any kick ass female Jedi in the original trilogy. So I had to be satisfied with my imagination.

When Heir to the Empire came out in 1991 I decided to purchase the novel even though I didn't have high hopes for it. But Timothy Zahn managed to create a true Star Wars story… and he even created a kick ass female who could swing a lightsaber! FINALLY! There was a character I could relate to: Mara Jade!

Over the years the character of Mara Jade was the reason I kept reading Star Wars novels and comics. Unfortunately, many of the authors in the Bantam era couldn't seem to get the character right. Until Mr. Zahn came in and essentially did what all us Mara fans wanted: gave us our character back AND teamed her with Luke. Too bad it took 10 story years to do it!

Since then I have dutifully picked up all the other SW books that featured Mara. The NJO/Vong storyline didn't feel like SW to me, but I read every book… Mara was in it. She was married to my favorite original character, and they actually had a son together. Those were the bright spots in that storyline. However, I still feel the Vong plot was a little too disgusting, mean and vicious for Star Wars. And killing off 2 major characters within that timeline was unnecessary. (I can buy killing Chewie… he couldn't talk anyway. But Anakin was just starting to be an interesting character. What a waste!)

Although NJO wasn't my fav I went ahead and read the bug books. Not bad… again the bug thing just didn't feel like SW to me, but at least Mara and Luke had some decent fight scenes.

Now we have the LofF series. Once again I wasn't very happy with the way the storyline was going… Jacen turning into an idiot and falling to the Dark Side. While a character falling IS a Star Wars theme, the way Jacen kept rationalizing what he was doing never really made sense to me. He was never THAT stupid in the past. And reading it was making me physically sick to my stomach. But I was determined to keep reading…

But then you did it! You allowed a fan favorite character, Mara Jade Skywalker, to die! You may think that you needed to "shake up" the fans and prove to them that no one is safe. But we know better… we know that Luke, Han and Leia can't be touched. I don't even mind that. But killing off Mara left us with no strong female JEDI character to follow the stories with. Thanks a lot.

While I may finish the LotF series, I won't be purchasing any other novels set in the period after LotF. Mara is gone, and so is the fun I found in Star Wars.

However, a novel set before that time period… perhaps filling in the years between Union and NJO or NJO and LotF… I may purchase. If they include Mara and Luke. Heck! Even a Mara/Luke standalone ala Survivor's Quest would be great! Or a Mara Jade novel like Allegiance. I'm sure the many other Mara fans out there would appreciate it… and buy them. Please consider it.

Sincerely,
MaraJade001

----------------
Not sure anyone will read it, but it made be feel a little better. Not a lot better, but a little.
14th-Jun-2007 01:22 am (UTC) - Re: Mara's Death...
A well composed letter. You organized your feelings very nicely. Even if it doesn't change anything we might still get more novels with Mara in them in past stories because if she's not in it, I'm just not interested in it. Glad you shared your letter MaraJade001.
20th-Jun-2007 06:54 am (UTC) - Re: Mara's Death...
Nicely done letter. And if it made you feel better, it served a good enough purpose right there. :)
20th-Jun-2007 06:52 am (UTC) - Re: Mara's Death...
I don't think it's just you. I've heard a number of people say that they're dissatisfied with Del Rey. The NJO had its moments but some major problems, too, and the Dark Nest trilogy reached new lows. LotF isn't improving matters any, imo.

I agree that killing Mara was a mistake. Karen was absolutely wonderful, but I can't agree with that decision, or with a lot of Mara's portrayal in Sacrifice. I don't see how Mara's death helps clear the stage for any of the younger characters, either, because most of the younger characters are hardly mentioned these days save for Jacen, and as far as he goes, his rationale about how Mara's death equated his sacrifice of Ben's love and admiration just didn't even make sense to me. I'm thoroughly disappointed.

I have lots of fanfics to recommend, but it'd take forever to list them individually. You could try marafics, the Luke/Mara index at the Jedi Council boards, the Mara Jade story index at the same site, TheForce.net'sFan Fiction Archive, and Club Jade's fanfic archive (wherein I particularly recommend Stuff, an all time favorite of mine). That should be enough to keep you reading happily for some time. :)
21st-Jun-2007 02:44 pm (UTC) - Re: Mara's Death...
Thanks for recommending the fanfic sites and "Stuff", I've given some of them a look and will be looking at others over the next several days. MaraJade001 has announced in a recent post plans to create a new site devoted to Mara called www.MaraLives.com if anyone is interested and is currently taking suggestions for the site. I've already given some of my suggestions. I'm glad that there are so many places to find Mara fan fiction since Del Rey has dropped the ball on this one and messed up the future of Star Wars fiction, for me at least. It is great to know that Mara Jade Skywalker lives on for us. Thanks again. I also hope you let us know when you finish your own fiction that you mentioned in an earlier post. I look forward to reading it!
20th-Jun-2007 07:32 am (UTC)
I was awfully pleased to meet a professional author who didn't look down on fanfic. :D

The characterization is hit and miss in Sacrifice, but Mara's definitely a warrior there.

The death - well, it was meant to mean something. Whether or not that was actually accomplished is a matter of opinion. I'd like to feel that it does, but I'm afraid I don't.
12th-Jun-2007 11:59 pm (UTC)
I started to get a little upset when I began thinking about Luke's reaction, so I had to stop for a second and think, LA LA LA IT'S NOT TRUE. Ha ha. Seriously, Gabri, come to the dark side, where we don't read EU anymore. Just sit around and write fanfic all day, you know you want to!!
20th-Jun-2007 06:57 am (UTC)
Luke's reaction was actually pretty well done, though of course horribly sad to read. (If you really want heart-rending angst, though, read VaderLVR's Nothing. So. Sad.

The EU holds few charms these days, that's for sure.
19th-Jun-2007 12:08 am (UTC)
Hello - found this link on the EU community.

Thanks for posting this. I'm glad to see that Traviss appreciates Mara and how the fans feel about her.

I won't be reading Sacrifice, because I haven't read any LOTF books since Betrayal. I don't like this rehashing of previous plots. I don't like the editing and the storylines Lucasbooks comes up with. I'll keep reading prequel or OT era EU, but that's about it.

Mara's death angers me, but at the same time I'm apathetic about it, because I'm not reading the series. To me, her death hasn't happened. It saddens me that she won't be in any more books, but I haven't liked the latest stories, so in a way her death hasn't hit me.

What angers me is that I [i]don't[/i] care, and I should. Mara is my favorite character. Her mischaracterization has angered me throughout the EU. I love her when she's written write, which isn't often.

I absolutely love Timothy Zahn and am more angry that he didn't write her death than the fact that Mara died. I don't blame Traviss though, I blame the editors. Timothy Zahn is the most famous EU author, he's created the best characters - why would you not have him write this book? It baffles me.

Anwyay, thanks for writing this!
20th-Jun-2007 07:02 am (UTC)
*grins* I didn't realize Dunc had posted it there until you posted here. She's certainly making sure this entry makes the rounds. :p

I particularly liked your comment about LotF rehashing previous plots. That's exactly what it's felt like to me. We're only covering old ground, what's already been done in the movies and previous books and comics, and I'm just not interested any more. It's a struggle for me to get through these books, because I'm so apathetic.

I've heard more than one person say they're glad Mara's dead just so her character won't be manhandled any more, so you're not alone there.

I totally agree that Zahn should have written Mara's death. I adored Karen, I truly did. She was absolutely wonderful to talk to, and I have no doubts that she genuinely cared about Mara and tried to do her justice. And she did get some of the crucial details right - but not enough. Not enough. It should have been Zahn; he's the only one who could totally have written that scene as it should have been. *sighs*

You're welcome. I'm glad you found this entry helpful. :)
20th-Jun-2007 07:21 pm (UTC)
I particularly liked your comment about LotF rehashing previous plots. That's exactly what it's felt like to me. We're only covering old ground, what's already been done in the movies and previous books and comics, and I'm just not interested any more. It's a struggle for me to get through these books, because I'm so apathetic.

It's especially frustrating when one of the subplots for Dark Nest was the characters finding out about Padme's death. Jacen saw the video of Anakin choking Padme and basically cheered him on. He saw what happens when you go to the Dark Side and he still doesn't have a problem with it. Huh??? Are the people in the GFFA that dense?

I've heard more than one person say they're glad Mara's dead just so her character won't be manhandled any more, so you're not alone there.

I'm not glad that she's dead, but overall I am disappointed in Lucasbooks for wasting a great character. Zahn had to basically fix ten chronological years of EU with the Hand of Thrawn duology. When I met him he said that a Luke/Mara relationship was planned from the beginning, but they waasted ten chronological years tying to get to that point. Then Luke and Mara are finally together in the NJO, and they don't use her as much as they should. And then in Dark Nest she and Luke turn into complete boneheads. What? It's just sad.

I totally agree that Zahn should have written Mara's death. I adored Karen, I truly did. She was absolutely wonderful to talk to, and I have no doubts that she genuinely cared about Mara and tried to do her justice. And she did get some of the crucial details right - but not enough. Not enough. It should have been Zahn; he's the only one who could totally have written that scene as it should have been. *sighs*

Yeah. I think it's really disrespectful not to have Zahn kill off one of the most, if not the most, important EU character. It would be like someone besides Mike Stackpole killing off Corran. There's a reason Lucas won't let any EU authors kill off Luke; Luke is his baby. Mara was Zahn's, even moreso than Thrawn, and Lucasbooks screwed him over. Oh, well.
19th-Jun-2007 06:02 pm (UTC)
Thanks for posting this Gabri -- I found it through lurking on the EU community.

In all honesty, I haven't been reading any of the Del Rey EU books apart from the ones written by Timothy Zahn (Allegiance, Survivor's Quest, and outbound Flight). I had toyed with the idea of reading some of them, seeing as my brother owns them all and keeps telling me a) I should, and b) I'm missing out.

But now I'm reeeeeeeally not sure. I've read snippets here and there from the books and I haven't been too thrilled/enchanted by any of it. I never felt like I was really reading the characters I know and love.

And then my brother asked me last night if I cared about spoilers for the LOTF. I said no so he said "They killed off a major character. Guess." He had this look on his face that told me he was expecting a reaction. Once I'd ascertained that it wasn't one of the Bug 3, I just knew. I said, he nodded...and I exploded (while my brother looked on bemusedly).

Last night I was seriously, seriously angry. And I'm still really ticked...but now I'm also really depressed. I knew they killed Chewie; ok, that hurt, but I could deal. I knew they killed Anakin. Ok, fine.

But now...it feels almost like their trying to prove something. I'm sure Ms. Traviss was very nice...but TPTB just killed any reason I might have had for wanting to read the series. No more Mara...shattered Luke...no more kick-ass female Jedi... *gnashes teeth*

I don't mind angst. I like angst. But I prefer angst that at least has a relatively happy ending.

Right. So now that I've vented I'm off to find some fanfic where Mara LIVES, thank you very much.
20th-Jun-2007 07:10 am (UTC)
You're not missing out. I'm sorry to say that, because I sure wish these books were better written. But they're not, and you're not. Above all else, avoid the Dark Nest trilogy. Worst writing the EU has seen since the KJA days.

Mara's death bothered me tremendously too, even to the point of me feeling physically ill for nearly a week. I felt silly about that, but you know what - I've cared deeply about this character for sixteen years now, and having her be killed hurts. It just does.

Karen was a darling, and she gave every indication of genuinly caring about Mara, and I appreciate that to no end. But this wasn't the right decision, and it's completely drained my desire to read the EU any further. I probably will, albeit halfheartedly, but I just don't care what happens any more. Like you said, Mara's gone, Luke is shattered (as Ben will be, to great extent), and for crying out loud, they took away a fantastic female character. That leaves us with who, Leia? She hardly does anything these days. Jaina? She hasn't done a damn thing since Dark Nest, and that was utter crap. Mirax, Iella, Tenel Ka, Tahiri, Syal, Myri, Jysella? Who? Only Allston's given any of them ANY screen time. Once again, the female characters get the shaft. And once Jacen's part in Mara's death comes out, how will the family ever cope? How will Luke ever be able to talk to his sister or brother-in-law or niece again without being reminded of his wife's murderer? How will any of them ever again speak to Luke or Ben without feeling horrendously guilty? I hate that the Skywalker/Solo family has to be shattered for Del Rey to consider a book good drama. They've been through enough, damn it. Leave them in relative peace. Stupid Del Rey.

I did link some fanfic recommendations in a response to an above comment, if you need any help finding more positive stories to read. :)
20th-Jun-2007 05:27 pm (UTC)
I hate that the Skywalker/Solo family has to be shattered for Del Rey to consider a book good drama. They've been through enough, damn it. Leave them in relative peace. Stupid Del Rey.

My sentiments exactly. Although, I feel it more acutely for Luke; Han and Leia at least still have each other. Luke has been alone for years, finally marries the right woman, his other half, they have a son, and then (just because Luke had too much happiness)...poof! Snuff out the love of his life and reduce to him being alone. Again. And I believe we'd established that he was getting lonely. What's wrong with a little happiness?! Frankly, from what I've heard about the Del Rey books, I'm surprised none of the major characters have been committed to a psych ward yet.

Mara's death bothered me tremendously too, even to the point of me feeling physically ill for nearly a week. I felt silly about that, but you know what - I've cared deeply about this character for sixteen years now, and having her be killed hurts. It just does.

It wasn't sixteen years for me, but it's been a solid ten, I think; I discovered Zahn after I'd seen the Special Editions. So ten years to know and care about a character...I'm still depressed, and I found out two days ago. *sniff*

Thanks for fic the links; I'll definitely be looking those over.
21st-Jun-2007 03:15 pm (UTC)
I strongly agree with this. The major strength and appeal of the Star Wars saga over the years for many fans, and even Harrison Ford has referred to this in interviews, is the bond of friendship and family between the main heroes. I'm tired of Del Rey trying to use old plot lines and make them new again. You just can't do that. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel! All of this major character death isn't making the story more interesting, they are just killing of the best characters that make the stories more interesting. Chewie's death was upsetting, but I could find a way to deal with that. Anakin Solo had more potential than any of his siblings. Now we lose the strongest female character we have in the Star Wars saga and it just doesn't make sense. I'll admit that Mara's death has caused me some emotional stress.

Anakin Skywalker didn't kill Padame, his turn to the dark side disappointed her and she gave up on life. Technically Anakin didn't make a sacrifice to turn to the dark side, he simply gave in to his own feelings of anger and lust for more power. He started out seeking Sith powers to save Padame, but in the end, Lucas' point is that good people can make bad choices even if they feel they are doing what they do for the right reasons. Jacen just doesn't care about anyone except himself. I'm so tired of his character going on and on about how he must sacrifice some one and how he doesn't care for his parents anymore. If Lucasbooks can't come up with anything better than this, EU is dead. If only there was a way for Timothy Zahn to fix this mess.... Putting a rift between the Skywalkers and Solos from which they will never fully recover is not the direction they should have taken and Mara's death has done exactly that. I just don't know where these laser brains get their delusions!
28th-Jun-2007 01:14 am (UTC)
I know this is insanely late...

I just got done reading Sacrifice. Will be posting my reaction to it after this comment. Now that I know what happens, I immediately came back here to read what Traviss had to say when you met her. I have to agree with your conclusions - that it was sad that Mara had to die, the stupid Mando-who-the-eff-cares-ians. I completely skipped over all the stuff about them after Mara's last scene, uttering, "Who the **** CARES!??!" If it turns out that I missed something incredibly important, I'll go back, I guess.
17th-Jul-2007 12:54 am (UTC)
Wow... so many Mara people... I'm impressed.
I haven't read Sacrifice yet, so to tell you the truth, I've really enjoyed this heapload of spoilers :)
But Mara.
My favorite character.
Fired-up redhead warrior turned mollycoddling mom (at least, that's what the authors have done to her).
Seriously?
17th-Jul-2007 12:57 am (UTC)
Oh, and I forgot to mention.
Del Rey has turned Star Wars into a tragic and pointless soap opera.
This page was loaded Nov 26th 2014, 5:13 am GMT.